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tunneling into Windows' Clicker via cell phone internet?
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jae_63
Senior Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Bethesda, MD

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:53 pm    Post subject: tunneling into Windows' Clicker via cell phone internet? Reply with quote

Hi,

I bought a class 1 bluetooth adapter to see if I could remotely control iTunes from a neighboring room, but the range is too weak; see:

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=110710

But I wonder ... is it possible to tunnel into into it using my Sprint Treo 650's internet capabilities, and if so how? Also, would the network bandwidth be adequate for controlling iTunes?

The computer that I'll want to tunnel into is on my wireless router, and the connection to the internet from the router is through Verizon DSL.

Which TCP ports does Salling Clicker use?

Thanks in advance ...
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salling
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 7498
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: tunneling into Windows' Clicker via cell phone internet? Reply with quote

You sure could try. The latency will be pretty bad, though, so this type of use is not supported/recommended.

Enable the relevant options in Salling Clicker -> Settings -> Networking.

The port used can be changed.

Best.
--
Jonas

[quote="jae_63"]Hi,

I bought a class 1 bluetooth adapter to see if I could remotely control iTunes from a neighboring room, but the range is too weak; see:

http://discussion.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=110710

But I wonder ... is it possible to tunnel into into it using my Sprint Treo 650's internet capabilities, and if so how? Also, would the network bandwidth be adequate for controlling iTunes?

The computer that I'll want to tunnel into is on my wireless router, and the connection to the internet from the router is through Verizon DSL.

Which TCP ports does Salling Clicker use?

Thanks in advance ...[/quote]
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jae_63
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Bethesda, MD

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This works pretty well, considering. The latency using Sprint PCS Vision is neither terrible, nor great. As one would expect, bigger chunks of data such as lists of artist names take a while to fetch. Searching by song name, for example, works fine, as does the interface when music is playing.

The security part of this is pretty scary ... a plain-text password and a plain-text conversation. But I can live with it if it's just for iTunes. I can address part of this by only accepting connections from Sprint Vision IP addresses (68.24.*.*->68.31.*.*). If I was willing to spend the money I could also get a combo VPN/Wifi router.

There are features which would be desirable to make this approach more attractive, such as some caching on the client and secure-shell tunneling on both ends, but realistically neither is worth your effort in the short term.

One thing that would be worthwhile is to allow different capabilities for Bluetooth clients and TCP/IP clients. E.g., I'd like my TCP/IP clients to be unable to access the Clicker "System" capabilities. Is this functionality already available (but hidden)? If not, would you please put this simple-to-implement item on your list? Thanks ...
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salling
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jae_63: It is not clear-text. The conversation is encrypted, and the password is not passed either.

Best.
--
Jonas
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jae_63
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Bethesda, MD

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, one more related question. When I configure the Palm Clicker client to use TCP/IP, it takes a hard-coded TCP/IP address. I've setup my home PC to use the dyndns.org service (one of several dynamic DNS services available on the Net), so it has a Fully Qualified Domain Name of XXXXXX.dyndns.org.

But I can't figure out if there's a way for the Clicker client to use a fully-qualified domain name (i.e., a DNS lookup) rather than a hard-coded IP address. If not, can you please take this as a feature request?
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salling
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is being considered for a future version.

Best.
--
Jonas
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akheron
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Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm interested in this too. Can you please post a step by step how you connected to SC through internet?

Thanks in advance.
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jae_63
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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Location: Bethesda, MD

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="akheron"]I'm interested in this too. Can you please post a step by step how you connected to SC through internet?

Thanks in advance.[/quote]


Let's assume for the time being that your setup is similar to mine.

I have a network connection (DSL, but the same principal applies for a
cable modem) with a non-static (i.e., dynamic) IP address. I also have
a wireless router (in my case, a DLink DI-524) which has two machines
"behind" it. I'm only trying to get Salling Clicker to communicate with
one of these two machines, although things would only be slightly more
complex if I wanted to communicate with each of them at different times.

Let's talk about IP addresses for the moment. Your Internet-capable phone has its own (dynamic) IP address when it's connected to the Internet. There are a number of ways to determine an IP address ... one way is to point a web browser (on a computer or phone) to http://www.whatismyipaddress.com .
A typical IP address for a Sprint PCS phone is 68.27.114.123.

The device directly connected to your DSL or cable modem (in my case, my wireless router) also has an IP address assigned to it by your
Internet Service Provider. For Verizon DSL, a typical address is 70.108.163.17.

Finally, your router assigns its own local IP addresses for machines "behind the router", and the router itself also has one of these local IP addresses, which are almost always of the form 192.168.y.z. Let's say that your router has address 192.168.0.1, and your two computers have local addresses 192.168.0.100 and 192.168.0.101.

The thing to keep in mind that the IP addresses behind your router aren't
"real" with respect to the Internet. You need to configure Salling Clicker on your phone to try to connect to your router, and you need to configure your router to interpret a connection to a given TCP port to correspond to
an attempt to connect to one machine in particular behind your router.

After all those prelimaries, the steps are:
(1) Determine the (true) IP address of your router, e.g. by pointing a web
browser on your target PC to http://www.whatismyipaddress.com.
(2) Start Salling Clicker on your phone, switch the "Connect using:"
setting to TCP/IP, and enter the IP address of your router. It's
easiest to leave the port number as the default 52131. Select
a password and enter it.
(3) On your target PC, start Salling Clicker, go to "Settings", check "Enable TCP/IP connections", and enter the same password as you chose in step #2.
(4) On your target PC, determine the local IP address by Control Panel->Networking. Select the network connection which you're using to communicate with the Internet via your router, and note that IP address, say 192.168.0.101.
(5) On your target PC, connect to the router's administrative settings using your router vendor's standard way of connection. This might be, e.g., to use your web browser to connect to http://192.168.0.1:8000. A typical username is 'admin' and your password is whatever you set it to. If you haven't already changed this password, now might be a good time.
(6) Using that admin interface, configure a rule which maps incoming connections on port 52131 to that same port # (52131) on local IP address 192.168.0.101 [NOTE: if in the future you want to be able to
connect to multiple PCs behind your router, you could configure additional
port and IP address associations here, but you won't be able to re-use that same port #52131 for incoming connections from the Internet]
(7) [optional for now, recommended after you have everything working]
Configure the firewall portion of your router to only permit connections
on port 52131 from the range of IP addresses which are assigned by your
wireless ISP (e.g., SprintPCS)
(8) Now you're ready to try connecting from your phone's Salling Clicker to your PC.
There's a good chance that a local firewall on your PC will issue some
sort of warning about this connection, in which case you'll need to perform
a one-time manual intervention to let this attempt through.


Good luck! Let me know if anything is unclear.
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jae_63
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Bethesda, MD

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="jae_63"]

One thing that would be worthwhile is to allow different capabilities for Bluetooth clients and TCP/IP clients. E.g., I'd like my TCP/IP clients to be unable to access the Clicker "System" capabilities.[/quote]

I realize now that the Jscript scripts can determine at runtime whether they're communicating with a Bluetooth or TCP/IP client [I'm pretty sure of this]

So it would be pretty simple for one of us to make slight edits in the "System" scripts to check what type of client is connecting, and also check a local configuration file. By default (e.g., if the configuration file is absent), everything would work as it does now. But if a setting is found which prohibits use of System scripts from Bluetooth and/or TCP/IP, then we can make that script send a warning message back to the phone user & exit.

I'll do this if I get some time, or someone else can give this a try if they wish ...

The bottom line is that Jonas has already given us the capability to address this security issue, so it doesn't really need to be addressed directly by him.

Jonas, feel free to correct me if anything I've said is inaccurate.
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akheron
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Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Posts: 27
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW.. Thanks for that great reply. Very well written tutorial. I'll try that and report back. :D
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goldend329
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Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I have tried this, however, am not able to get this to work on two levels (likely interelated:

1) Did see how on the Salling software how to change it away from the IP address of behind the firewall

2) Still getting the error message when launching the software on the phone, if I have the address correct.

Note, I am able to VNC from the phone to the desktop, but believe the Salling software will better meet my need.
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goldend329
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Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I forgot adding the option for being notified of changes to this thread, and am doing this now. Sorry for the oversight.
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salling
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 7498
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Based on your comments, it appears to me you're not quite understanding the concept of port forwarding. ("Salling software how to change it away from the IP address of behind the firewall")

You do not need to change anything in Salling Clicker on your PC.

The trick is to set port forwarding up on your router (like I presume you did for VNC). And then connect to the router's external IP address from your Treo.

Best.
--
Jonas

[quote="goldend329"]Thanks, I have tried this, however, am not able to get this to work on two levels (likely interelated:

1) Did see how on the Salling software how to change it away from the IP address of behind the firewall

2) Still getting the error message when launching the software on the phone, if I have the address correct.

Note, I am able to VNC from the phone to the desktop, but believe the Salling software will better meet my need.[/quote]
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goldend329
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Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I got this. I still am having troubles, and I'm pretty sure that I've got the port forwarding setup correctly (just go into the router setup, and allow the 52131 to be forwarded to my the IP address of my PC behind the firewall.

However, when trying to connect via the Cliecker on my Treo, virtually immediately, I get the error, "Error: Timeout. Is this address correct, and I'm sure it is.

What I'm unsure, is how the IP address of my cell phone falls into play. Do I need to enable connections to this. So far I think it should work like VNC, and I don't.

Note, I tested again and VNC works from the phone
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goldend329
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Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further question, what should the service type be, TCP, or UDP?
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